Episode 127: Why Finishing Your To-Do List Won't Make You Feel Better
ITUNES | SPOTIFY
Working motherhood is hard, and most of us believe that if we just got through the list, we'd finally feel calm. But what if your to-do list isn't the reason you feel overwhelmed?
My friend Ashley Solomon is a licensed clinical psychologist, writer, and founder of Galia Collaborative and in this episode, she explains why this keeps happening with her idea of "Story After State". The feeling in your body comes first, and the story you tell about it comes second. That story turns a messy kitchen into resentment, or a full calendar into "I'll never get this done." Clearing the counter doesn't change the story. Calming your body does.
You'll hear how to calm your body in the middle of a full day (even with two minutes), how to catch the stories driving your mood, and why stress does less harm when you stop treating it as the enemy.
This week, I'm checking in with my body before I touch my list.
Links and resources mentioned in this episode:
Sign up for Ashley's newsletter at www.galiacollaborative.com
Follow along on Instagram at www.instagram.com/galiacollaborative
Apply to work with Katelyn at www.themothernurture.com/application
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You are listening to the Life Coach for Working Moms podcast, the show where we are talking about what it actually takes to make life work as a working mom. I'm your host, Katelyn Denning, a full time working mom of three and a certified life and executive coach. I'm so glad you're here and I hope you enjoy this week's episode. Hello, hello. Welcome back to another episode of the podcast. I'm so excited for this one today. This is gonna be for any of you who feel like maybe sometimes you are a little bit reactive depending on your emotional state. For those of you who sometimes have trouble resting or slowing down, and for anyone who experiences a state of stress on a regular basis, I think we can all probably raise our hands as working moms. For this conversation, I'm sitting down with Dr. Ashley Solomon, who is a clinical psychologist, writer, and founder of Galia Collaborative, a women-centered mental health practice here in Cincinnati where I am. And just a note, Galia, you go to look her up afterward, is spelled G-A-L-I-A. Autocorrect keeps wanting to change it, so in case you get it wrong too, that's how you spell it. She has, for more than 15 years, worked at the intersection of psychology, leadership, and everyday life, with an enduring curiosity about what helps people grow, connect, and become more fully themselves. She is just an amazing human. I have had the pleasure of spending time with her on many occasions, and just respect and appreciate her work and her leadership so much. She is innovative, and I feel so lucky that our community here has her services, but also through her writing, through her presentations, through even her social media, she reaches a much broader audience. And so please, I encourage you to follow along, and enjoy this very meaningful, very deep conversation that I hope will leave you with a better understanding of yourself and some very easy and tangible tools that you can take into those reactive moments when you're feeling overwhelmed or stressed or reactive by everything that is on your plate Hi, Ashley. Welcome to the Life Coach for Working Moms podcast. I am so excited that you're here and we made this happen. Oh. I'm so excited as well. Thanks so much for having me. Of course, of course. As I was thinking about our conversation, Ashley and I, as you will learn, know each other in real life as well as her being a subject matter expert on lots of things that we'll get into. I was really having trouble narrowing down what I wanted to talk to you about, because there are so many interesting things that you do professionally, , ways that you show up as a human that I am curious about, as a mom, as someone with a career and a business that you're growing, and kids and transitions that you've been through. I was like, how do we narrow it down? But we're gonna try to do that today, and then we'll just have you back for another episode on another topic another time. Perfect. Perfect. Love it. Yeah. All right. Well, why don't you, do a quick intro of yourself. , who you are, what you do, what family life looks like, anything that would be fun for listeners to get to know you. Sure. Yeah, I'd love to. So I'm Ashley Solomon. I am a licensed clinical psychologist, , would be my sort of most professional title. Also, , I do a lot of writing. So I've more recently adopted the, you know, start to say I'm a writer as well. , something I really love. , do speaking and teaching and all of those fun things. , and beyond that, I am a mom of four children who are all still at home. , primarily kind of grade school age and middle school. And then a stepmom of, three more awesome kids who are in middle school and high school. , so do a lot of co-parenting and, , soccer transport, and all, all those lovely fun things. So, and beyond that, I'm an avid reader and, , I love to take walks. Mm. Me too. Yeah, yeah. I had a nice long walk this morning. Good. I'm starting earlier this school year, because we have an earlier start- Yeah. Uh-huh ... to the new school. Yeah. So it was very dark outside when I was still walking, but I love it. I, I love it too. I'm, I am an early walker, not necessarily by choice, but by necessity , of schedules and... But I've, , only more recently come to really appreciate, like, the true darkness. Mm-hmm. I l- Are you generally... Do you listen to podcasts or listen to anything when you walk or...? I change it up. So this morning, for example, I was walking with a neighbor, so it was a nice just connection and sharing and talking. Oh. We always have deep conversations. But then on my solo walks, , sometimes I love to just listen to the neighborhood and my own thoughts. Mm-hmm. I find it a really great time to process. And then other times I'm tired of listening to myself think, and so I put in a podcast or an audiobook too. Yeah. Yeah, . I've been listening recent- well, I guess for a while now I will listen to a Dharma talk, which is like a sort of- Mm ... Buddhist meditation related talk, and then kind of go into some meditation, because I found that, , meditation was something that I always wanted to do, but- Yeah , really don't do as well just sort of sitting still or kind of being in, , sitting meditation. But walking meditation is really, seems- Mm-hmm ... to be really helpful for me, so. Hmm. That's been what I've been doing recently. Or I'm listening to Yesterday Year, 'cause I'm about halfway through, so. Oh. Yeah, so. Let's not- You know, go ahead ... derail the conversation Yeah, I won't. Oh, I- You know ... really want to hear your thoughts in particular- Yeah ... when you're- Okay. Okay, yeah. I'm probably not even halfway. I'm probably a third of the way through, so I'm still- Oh, you'll be done in no time ... I'm, I'm still confused, but okay. Yeah, we'll talk. You'll be done in no time. And the audio is fantastic. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I thought that narrator did a great job. Yeah, for sure. I, one thing I love about you, and, and then I want you to use this in answering this question, is I love watching you evolve and learn new things and try new things. Mm. And I remember when I first learned of Galia Collaborative, which is your practice that you run, and you have... I mean, you, you could tell the spiel better than I could, but right, lots of therapists and practitioners that work under you or for the collective, , in serving your patients. But you've added, you know, you offer book clubs and different events, and I attended your retreat for- Mm-hmm ... Practice, , people last winter. And you did your new, , certification to offer additional psychotherapy options through Odessa, you know- Mm-hmm ... as a, as a wing of Galia. And so there's so much that, , I see or it appears that you are doing professionally. Mm-hmm. And you have a lot of responsibilities at home, and do things for yourself. Mm-hmm. You can add to any of that that I missed. , and then tell us what, what does a week look like for you? And I know no two weeks are the same. Hmm. But if you could broad strokes tell us how are you moving through all of those things? Hmm. Yeah. What, what a good question. How am I moving through all those things? Yeah, I think you laying a lot of that out , is sort of interesting to hear in reflection because I do, I mean, I'm definitely somebody who is, like, sort of insatiably curious. , I think that feels really true of me. And so I love to learn and experiment with new things. And I think my, , personal work has been trying to find not, not ways to limit that, but at least to I guess to at least be more choiceful about, , what I'm, you know, choosing to invest my time and energy in, , and maybe a little less, , reactive to what feels exciting. But I guess , to get back to the question of kind of moving through, like, what a week looks like, I will, I'll say on a really, , linchpin of my weeks have been on Sunday. My, , husband and I sit down or go on a walk. I can drag him on one of my walks, and we'll do you know, sort of planning for the week in terms of what it will look like. And so we have our calendars and so we have, , kind of a three-part- rituals. So one is , the scheduling and going through what the schedule's gonna look like, which is, can take anywhere from, , oh, 10 minutes to, like, an hour and a half to map it out. Yes. It's sort of wild with seven kids' schedules and- Yes all of that. Yeah, and busy lives. , and then we'll do our check-in questions, which are more about us and our relationship. Mm ... this is going beyond what you've asked, but- I love it ... just kinda get, so. I'm so curious. Yeah, so then we'll do our check-in questions. And so we have a little bit of a ritual in terms of how we do that. So we each come up with two questions that we ask each other, and they could be anything from, you know, what's something that, you did last week that I might not have noticed, or, what has been happening at work that has been, , weighing on you, or whatever it might be. , so we try to be really intentional about that. , and then we... well, and then the third part, I mentioned three, so I'll, stay true to that. But we- I don't know, we talk about it, like, 5% of the time. We're supposed to talk about our finances, but we get really avoidant of that. Hmm. And that one's just not as fun as the check-in questions, so. You're so not alone in that. So anyway. You're so not alone in that. Yeah. I feel like that's always- Yeah ... on the goals list of things that we- Yeah ... wanna be. Like, we wanna be those people. We talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. And we do, I know you are, super familiar with Fair Play, and so we have done Fair Play in our family. And because I think it's worked really well for us, we haven't needed to check in on that, but that was also kind of part of the intentionality around this, , check-in ritual, is that we'd also, , check in on , how is that feeling, or do we need to trade off any responsibilities for the week. You know, if I typically do dinner, are there gonna be nights that... So, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that's kind of our Sunday ritual which leads into the week. And then I feel like the weeks are just, like, off to the races. , I spend a lot of my time doing clinical work, which I really love. So, like, daytime, after the, like, morning. I was just telling someone, well, my brother, who, doesn't have kids of his own, but, , was explaining to him how by the time I'm, like, in my, , chair at my office I've lived, , 16 lives, , and have been up for, like, three days. But- Yeah ... yeah. And then my days , are full of a lot of clinical work, which I really, really love, , and feels like kind of the heartbeat of what I do. And then, , do all the after-school stuff and craziness. , and then, like, co-parenting, , my kids share time are, are at my house and then their dad's house. The, the little perk of that, if you will, as much as I, , desperately miss them when they're not with me, is that that also then feels like catch-up time. And so- Mm ... it's kind of an interesting balance for- Mm ... yeah, for parents whose kids are not with them 100% of the time. Like, it's, it- Yeah ... can feel like a very all or nothing kind of experience. , which is- Yeah ... you know, I've gotten into the flow of that. It comes with its pros and cons, so. Yeah. Yeah. Where do you add in, like you're walking it sounds like early in the morning. Maybe you're listening to an audiobook or reading- Mm-hmm ... in, in little areas. Where do you add in, your writing, for example, when you said- Hmm ... you're a writer? Where do, where do things like that- Yeah ... or, , adding new things, professional- Mm-hmm ... goals or offerings that you're doing, how does that fit in alongside the parenting, the co-parenting, the clinical work? Something I've been thinking about, , very recently is, is kind of m- , a- and maybe I come to this insight, , periodically, but I always have to, like, circle back to it and recognize it again. But so I've been recently re-recognizing how, seasonal I am. I- it might be a way of saying it. So, like, writing is a good example. Like, I will have every intention of, okay, I'm gonna go on my walk, and then I'm gonna carve out 30 minutes in the morning before anyone's awake, and I'm gonna do my writing. And I'm gonna do that, whether it was every day or even if it was, three days a week or something. , and inevitably, that falls apart quickly. And I think I finally stopped seeing that as a failure of discipline, and more so that, like, inherently that set-up, I mean, I think it can certainly work for some who maybe have a more predictable situation- Mm ... Or maybe more rhythm. But I think inherent to having young children who wake up at different times, , depending on the day or, different activities that pop up or not, all the things we know well, just recognizing that that doesn't feel like a fit to what life actually is. 'cause I, I think I like the idea of being very routined, but- Mm ... And so I think one day I will be, , perhaps when, , life allows it a little bit more. But instead trying to operate in seasons. So writing is a good example. , I feel like what feels like it works better is to, , go in spurts. And so, , if it's a weekend that my kids are not with me, for example, I will spend, 10 hours, , on a sort of writing spree, and that feels good. Or I've been trying about once a quarter to, , schedule, , a full day, which I know is certainly not possible for everybody. But, like, a full day, and it's even better if it can include, , an overnight- Mm ... That is not at home, , where I'm going somewhere, like a hotel or an Airbnb or something, and I'm by myself, and that's just, like, my writing, , zone. And- Yeah ... So then it feels like a treat, , and is also, , a little bit of an escape and yeah. Mm. Yeah. So it's been really nice when I can do it. Yeah. It's interesting that you mention, Wanting these routines and rhythms- Mm-hmm ... and then also accepting where you are in this season of life. Yeah. I have thought a lot lately, or noticed lots of little examples in my life or with people in my life of loving the idea of something- Mm, mm-hmm more than maybe the actual thing, or, or how it actually works. Yeah. And, and so that's so interesting that you say that, and just something that I've been noticing as well to check in myself- Yeah ... or just as I see it in others, how much do we love the idea of something- Mm-hmm ... as compared with how well it really is or works or feels in reality? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, kind of building off that too, I've noticed for myself, loving the idea of something , or loving how something used to work for me in a particular way. Mm. But then at some point having to recognize, like, I, you know, that is not, whether that's not my life anymore, that's not the season that I'm in, or that's not just who I am. But I, I can notice how attached I can be because I've sort of assigned that to my identity in some way. Even the idea of, like I'm a person who likes routine. That's, you know, a story, , that maybe I have and that I've carried. But if I really step back and look and say, "Oh, and I'm also a person who likes to be able to be spontaneous and to-" Mm yeah, make adaptations when needed and things like that, so. Yeah, yeah. You wrote a piece this summer that- I loved, so I get your newsletter that comes on Sundays, and I'll put a link to this in the show notes. Everyone should go read it, but we're gonna talk about it a little bit. And the piece was called Story After State. Mm-hmm. Story After State. Can you walk me through what that phrase means and how you landed on that? Sure, yeah. I really love this concept, and so I'm excited you're bringing it up. And I've recently, , been told that I'm a high-context communicator, which is a nice way of telling me that I'm very wordy, so I will- I'm going to give a little context here. I've never heard that term before. That was my grandfather. Yeah, yeah. I hadn't either, and I've really, , owned it. Yeah. So- Okay, great. Give us all the context. We're here for it. Yeah, so Story After State. So in terms of the context, just to understand, what I mean by story , in this way, is just thinking about... So, you know, as a psychologist, I'm thinking about, you know, how we come to obviously make sense of the world, and then how the ways that we are making sense of the world sort of influence, , how we're living, how satisfied we are, our moods, et cetera, quality of our relationships. , but one of the things to start with is thinking about, as human beings, in our evolutionary history, what differentiated us from, the rest of the animal kingdom was really our ability to create story. And so story in this context is, to- Be able to take, , things that are not actually concrete or that we can see and touch and taste and feel, and to create concepts around them, and, , ideas around them, and then treat those things, these concepts, these intangible things, as real as we would treat something that we can, you know, taste and touch and see. And so that is the way that human beings have evolved and, , been able to be successful in the world, is to be able to create concept and story, , out of things that aren't there. And so it's a beautiful gift, of course, in, in terms of our cognition. , and it's really interesting when we take a step back and look at the fact that we do that so readily that, , we start to forget that we are doing it, and that we are constantly sort of creating stories out of our experience, et cetera. Okay, so that's a bit of context. One of the major reasons that we create story is that we have to make sense of those physical experiences, , what we are encountering and the way that we're feeling even in our own physical bodies. And so when we're talking about state here and the story after state, we're thinking about our, our sort of physical state, our emotional state, feelings that arise in us. And so it's actually, like, a really, , amazing ability that we have to be able to put words and labels to what's happening inside of us. If I'm feeling anxious, if I'm feeling depressed, if I'm feeling overwhelmed or guilty, . And you know, most of us have a pretty extensive vocabulary to describe what's happening. So with that context, the story after state idea is, is starting to recognize that most of us assume that when we, encounter, , experiences, when we walk into our kitchen and see that the counters are covered in dishes and, papers that need our attention, and we have that feeling maybe we have this strong feeling of overwhelm that comes into our bodies. We inherently, because we are human beings and this is what we do, , we make sense of that kind of state that our body is experiencing by creating a story about what that state means. So the story in that case might be, , anything from "This is im- like I'm never gonna be able to handle everything that's in front of me right now," to it could be a story about, "No one else in this house cares about, , the cleanliness of our home." Or- Mm-hmm ... or even it could be, "No one else in this house cares about me or my time." so we, we instantaneously are filled with stories. And so what we can see is that the stories themselves actually are what, , generally are causing the emotion that we then experience. So if I, for example, , walk into the room and see this big mess, I have a sense of overwhelm, , or, like, energy in my body. I tell the story that, "No one else in this house cares about these things except me." Then the feelings that I'm gonna have are potentially, anger, loneliness, frustration- Resentment ... resentment, right. Despondency and- Mm-hmm ... , anxiety. So what this is getting at is the idea that it's not, and this is hard for a lot of people, including myself at times. Mm. That it's not the mess on the counter that is creating the, , the emotional response. Let's say their resentment, right? There's a step in between. There's the- Mm ... story that I'm telling myself about it. You know, if hypothetically I'd walked into that room and the story that I told was that there was just a tornado that happened, my feeling, you know, maybe I'd still feel anxious or overwhelmed, but maybe I wouldn't feel resentful of anybody. Mm. Right? So there's inherently there's always a story when there's an emotion. Mm. And the story's always gonna come after I've felt that energy in my body because the story is how I'm interpreting that energy. If that makes sense. Yes. And so I'll pause, make sure that, that feels coherent. But, we can talk about, , some of the implications of it. But when you start to really, , digest that, it can be, , such a powerful concept or understanding because a lot of the implications then help us understand that we tend to try to solve for , the stimulus, the, the mess on the counter, when that ultimately just sort of leaves us in circles because we're not actually solving for the story that's gonna come up. I can clean up the counter, but I'm still gonna be left with that story that no one really cares, and I'm gonna be carrying that to the next room when I see the next mess. Mm. And I'm still gonna be frustrated, and that's gonna loop and loop and loop. So is that making sense so far? It does. So can we go... Let's use an example, and you- you've given a few already. But- Mm ... I'm guessing probably that a lot of people listening to this, because I hear it in my community or with my clients, you know, especially when we think about working moms, working parents who are managing a career, raising a family, taking care of a household, that there's this belief that if I just got the right systems in place, we were talking about routines, if I just had better routines, if I was more disciplined, or I think probably one of the most prominent ones, if I could just get through my to-do list. Mm-hmm. Or maybe even not get through it. If I could just make a big dent in it- Right ... right, that I would then feel calm, or I would then feel- Right ... like I'm on top of things, or like I have- Mm ... my stuff together. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So when we think about this story- After state Mm-hmm ... what's the, what's the problem with that belief? Mm-hmm. That if I make a dent or get through my to-do list, then I'll feel calm Right. Yeah. I mean, it's certainly an understandable, right? Like, it's a story that makes sense that we've arrived at that. It clearly looks like this is the problem. Mm-hmm. My to-do list is the problem, and if I could just get to the end of it. And, on a very practical level I think we all know from experience that, it just doesn't happen, and yet the story then when we recognize that, oh, I got to the end of my to-do list. Well, when I never really got to the end of my to-do list because it filled up faster than I could, complete things. Yeah. Right? Is we create more stories about if I could just operate more quickly or if I was more efficient or if I had more help or whatever, you know, the stories- Mm-hmm ... that we can sort of fill in around that. The problem though, with that belief that's kind of taken hold is that it's, it's missing a core step, which is that, that state part. Mm-hmm. So one thing we know is that, if we are so sort of getting into, some of what we know about the nervous system and the ways that we become, like our bodies have become habituated to stress, for example. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So if we are used to living in a highly activated, high-stress physical state, and we are also habituated to associating, having the story play that the state that I'm feeling is because of my to-do list- Mm-hmm um, what we find is that, that even when we start to work our way through the to-do list, that the state isn't actually really changing, or at least it's not changing in any kind of, like, durable or enduring way. , and so again, we start to make a dent in it, but that feeling remains. And so our brain will fill in, well, the only reason that my body could still be feeling this sort of like high activation stress state is because, well, clearly I've forgotten to put other things on my to-do list, or I need to do more. I'm not actually doing enough. I thought this to-do list was enough things, but- Yeah really I should be taking on like six more projects or whatever it might be. And so the reality is it's more of a function of our state, us being sort of habituated. You know, some people might, we might even say sort of addicted, Although that makes it sound like maybe there's more intentionality. I mean, this is all happening so unconsciously, of course, but we're at least habituated to living in a highly activated state that when we really look at it, you know, , one way of maybe looking at this or seeing this in action is when, you know, if you have somebody who's a super high achiever or Used to constantly being on the go, and then we finally give them an opportunity to relax or to meditate or to, you know, get quiet. That actually feels really bad for a lot of people. They'll say like, "I don't like this. , and they'll feel like it's because their mind won't quiet, but it's actually because a quiet mind feels so unfamiliar. Yeah. But the story is, well, that's because of all of these outside things that I need to- Mm fill my mind with. Mm. Rather than the fact that the, the internal state has you could think about it as sort of like gotten stuck in a certain gear. Yeah. And so I can't seem to pull myself out of it, and then the stories will kind of build around that. Well, it must be because I need to do this. It must be because I need to do that. So we get locked there essentially. Yeah. Yeah. I love that example of rest. I use that all of the time in thinking about when you take someone is, who is high performing, used to being on the go all the time, or in this constant state of stress and activation, and put them on a couch. Mm-hmm. Tell them to not do anything, that, that there's almost a detox experience that happens. Yeah. And, and that does. If we haven't experienced that personally, we can imagine that that does not feel enjoyable. Yeah, yeah. And so that is such a great example or way to think of this as noticing the state that you are in- Mm-hmm as opposed to just what you're doing or what you think will solve for it. Right. Right. Yeah, because if we believe that the story is the problem, or we believe that the content of the story is the problem, so if the story, for example, is, "I'll never get through my to-do list," or, "I'm not enough," or, "I always screw things up," or whatever, I mean, if it's a sort of fear-based story if we focus on trying to solve for that, trying to disprove that by doing more or doing it better or being perfect or whatever it might be, you know, we, we end up reinforcing the story. Because even if we get it right, even if we, "Ugh, I've managed to do everything," then that just means, oh, okay, I need to do that again tomorrow because that was the problem. Mm. So if we focus on the content of the story, of trying to solve for the content of the story, we end up kinda keeping ourselves in loops, which is going back to that idea of story after state. So if we start with the state, instead of the content of the story, we go to just what am I literally- feeling in my body and being able to tend to that, sort of down regulate, if you will- Mm ... Get ourselves into a more, operative state, then one thing that we notice is that the story tends to fall away on its own. Like, , if I'm in a calmer state, I, it's, it's amazing. We've all obviously had these experiences. You know, I don't wanna, throw my whole family out of the house at that point, even if they've, , created the same mess because my body just feels, very different. And so the story starts to fall away on its own. Mm. Or I don't feel like I have to, take on this extra project, , because I don't have the same level of urgency or activation in myself. So the implication of a lot of this is to try to step away from disproving the story and, see what we can do when we just tend to our body state- Mm um, by turning down the volume on that and then see. Then maybe I still need to clean up the kitchen because it's still a mess, but I'm doing it in a very different emotional and physical state than I was before. Mm. Can you give us some examples of what it would look like to tend to the state? So we're talking to- Yeah . Women who are already tight on time. They're probably living in these states that , we keep- Yeah ... describing of overwhelm or feeling anxious or any number of things. Mm-hmm. So what does this look like practically speaking, and what are, are your ideas for doing it in a way that, not that I wanna perpetuate this, like we need to get onto the next thing. Yeah. But, you know, if your kids need you or people do need to be fed- Sure ... or there is this deadline to meet, what are some practical ways that we can do this in the days that are already really full? Yeah. Yeah.. I mean, I'm gonna start with what's gonna sound potentially, you know, if, I think particularly for many of the sort of high achievers and busy people among us who tend to have a little bit more of a, like, harsh inner critic or way of talking to themselves that you know, can be pretty rigid and, and those kinds of things. , what I'm gonna suggest is gonna feel strange and uncomfortable, but... I think one of the very first things is just in the same way that many of us who maybe have young children these days we've been trained now to talk to our children by just naming and identifying what it is that they're feeling, right? That's often the first- Yeah ... first step. You know, you've probably heard the phrase, , name it to tame it. Mm-hmm. Which is, a beautiful little phrase. It's science-backed, and we can see even in the amygdala, the emotional part of the brain, that when you are able to name what is happening and how someone is feeling, that amygdala starts to quiet a little bit. Mm-hmm. The emotion goes down. So we can use that with ourselves too. So it might be something as I've walked in the kitchen, it's a total mess, and I'm putting my hand on my heart and I'm saying, "You're really overwhelmed right now. Like, this is a really hard moment. This feels way overstimulating." So it's just sort of narrating ideally in a, like, a very loving, kind of compassionate, like, it makes sense that your heart is racing. Mm-hmm. It makes sense that, , your urge is to, yell or whatever it might be. It's self-validation, if you will, but, , in a way , that is kind and acknowledging of whatever the experience is. Mm-hmm. So that's a way of just, like, tending to the state that you're in without having to, , solve or fix it right away. Yeah. Sometimes when that activation has just gotten, really high You know, we can do things that are gonna shift our nervous system a little bit more quickly- Mm-hmm ... Into a different state. So if we're in a high activation state, things like movement. , like if we have time to, even if it's just like, "Well, I'm gonna walk around the house one t- w- you know, outside." Yeah. Actually out- going outside, all right? Yeah, yeah ... is really helpful. Doing things like, again, sounds kind of silly, but humming you know- Mm-hmm ... stimulates the vagus nerve and helps us to kind of- Yes ... down regulate. So, , splashing cold water on our face. So all these things, what they have in common, again, is they're, , tending to the body instead of what we see as the problem in front of us. Mm-hmm. And if you're like me, , every cell in my body is going to be telling me, , "Just fix the problem that's outside of me. Don't, you know, don't worry about this sort of physical state," 'cause we've all learned to, , bypass those things. Like, okay, you just do it, right? So it's definitely a rewiring of the habit to start with self- Mm-hmm versus starting with I'm gonna attack the problem, or I'm gonna solve this for somebody else, or whatever it is. Yeah. Is this along, , those similar lines? I'll just share an example from my own life this morning, where I got to my desk this morning, and I have the privilege of working from home, so I didn't have to commute. I got my kids where they needed to go, and I sat down, and I- Had made my list for the day, had made my plan. It looked rather large. And I'm solo parenting right now as my husband travels for work, and so I knew I had a big evening ahead of me, too. And so then I started to have those feelings of like, oh, you really have to maximize your day because- Mm I'm on duty all night, so I'm not really gonna have that flexibility to maybe do something in the evening if I need to, right? All of these things. Mm-hmm. And I started to feel- Mm-hmm ... anxious probably, my, actually my stomach felt a little upset. Mm-hmm. But I was prepping for a session, so I didn't, I didn't have time to walk around outside- Mm-hmm or those things. Mm-hmm. But what I was able to do in the couple minutes that I had, and I don't know, as I'm saying this I'm like, I don't know, maybe you wouldn't say this is the right thing 'cause I'm not sure- Mm ... this is really tending to my body, but I lit a candle that I know I love the scent of, and I did a quick search in Spotify for, like- Mm-hmm I think I typed in calm meditation music. Mm-hmm. And just as I was pulling up my client notes and, sitting at my desk, I had the music playing and the candle lit, and it immediately put me in my mind into my favorite yoga studio. Mm-hmm. Which I don't get to go to very often, but- Yeah ... right? You walk into yoga studio- Yeah the incense is burning. You're like, "Oh, I can just relax." Yeah. And it did help. I am not any further- Yeah ... along on my to-do list for the day. I'm gonna cross maybe- Yeah ... half the things off and- That is what it is, , but it was interesting just in those couple of quick things that I had a minute or two to do- Yeah without even really noticing that was what I was doing. But I knew that was- Yeah ... what I needed. Yeah, yeah. I think that's beautiful. I mean, that's, that's exactly it. I think that, I mean, what I hear as you're describing what you did and, , even better, that it was just sort of intuitive, you know? Mm. Your sort of inner self knew what you needed in those moments, was not to, , rush even faster to, to accomplish something. But I mean, I see that as f- for sure attending to your nervous system. I mean, I think you were attending to your body, right? And putting sound- Yeah ... and putting- Yeah ... and , you sort of went to the yoga studio. As much as you would be being there physically, you were there in terms of bringing on that sensory experience. Yeah ... and I bet the story, I mean, I think it's a really good example in that you may not be substantively further along in the to-do list at this point, but I imagine your, response to it or your inner state about it feels somewhat different. Like, you can still- Mm be disappointed, like, "Ugh, I wish I had gotten more of that done." Mm-hmm. But that's a very different, story than, "I'm such a failure," "This'll, none of these things will ever happen," right? The stories that we can go to when our state is that much more escalated and elevated. Yeah. So you're gonna be able to tell yourself kinder stories- Mm when you're in a different physical state or emotional state. Yeah, yeah. So maybe the old story falls away- Mm-hmm ... or a nicer, kinder version of it emerges. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I always love to give examples because I know that- for people who are in an office setting or in a more corporate environment, , where we do have these stories pop up or our states change and we don't have the luxury of taking a walk around the block or standing with our feet in the grass, that- Right there are also lots of really small creative ways that we can do- even in the presence of others, and no one really has to know what you're doing. For sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, there are so many small physical adjustments that, that we can do that just sort of sh- shift, even subtly, our nervous system. What I was gonna add, too, that even noting, so you know, sort of playing on this concept of story and starting to recognize where story is at play. Even just by naming, like, "Oh, this is a story that I'm telling myself"- Yeah ... also can be helpful because as soon as we do that, we sort of step out of being in the story , and into a witness of the story. So if, to use your example, if you're able to say, like, "Ah, I'm never gonna get through all of this, , and I'm gonna be so overwhelmed tonight," so if we can step out of that even just, you know, one degree enough to say, like, "That's a story I'm telling myself." We don't have to get into, , disproving it- Mm-hmm even necessarily, but we can say, "That's a story." Like- Mm ... I've started to try saying to, I'll add like one more sentence and say, you know, "Okay, that's a story. Maybe, maybe not." Like, "I'm never gonna be able to. Maybe, maybe not." it just, like, adds this little seed of doubt that helps remind me that these are, like, things that my mind is creating versus, again, like that, tangible reality. Because again, the human mind is so amazing. It treats those things the same. It treats the apple that I'm holding in my hand the same as the thought, like, I'm a terrible person, as if they are concretely the same, but they are not, and I can remind myself like, "Hmm, maybe, maybe not." Yeah ... that's just been really helpful for me lately. Yeah, I like that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so we could say, "The story I'm telling myself." Sometimes I'll use the I'm having the thought. Yeah. Yeah. You know? 'Cause again, it's like- Yeah ... thought, story, it's not- Yeah, same thing ... necessarily true. But I'm, I'm having the thought that this is really overwhelming. Gives me a little bit of that- Yeah. Exactly ... third person observation of the- Yeah ... thought that I'm having. Yeah. I always think of Brené Brown when I think of the phrase, "The story I'm telling myself." Mm-hmm. And I use it a lot sometimes with clients when we're talking about relationships, especially- Mm-hmm ... spouse or partnerships. And I don't know if you've ever- Yeah heard her tell the story about , I think it was her husband- Mm-hmm ... was, like, out swimming laps, and she was trying to get his attention, and he just kept swimming right by her, and she got so angry, like, "He's ignoring me," all these stories. Uh-huh. And then when he finally came in and she confronted him, she had the presence of mind to say, "The story I'm telling myself is you're mad at me, and you didn't want to swim with me, and you were ignoring me." And, and he- Mm-hmm ... I think his response was, "Oh, you were out in the water?" Uh-huh. Like, "I, I didn't even see you." Uh-huh. And, and so as I was, as you were describing- Yeah ... this phrase that we could say to ourselves, the story I'm telling myself, or that's a story, or that's a thought that I'm having, or I'm having the thought- Mm-hmm I've thought of it more in giving some perspective or again, that possibility that there might be another story at play here from the other person- Right ... but it can also be really helpful in relation to ourselves. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Whether it's about how much your partner is doing or your kids- Mm-hmm or how good you are at something or your to-do list or all of these other things. Mm-hmm. . You could practice saying the story I'm telling myself or I'm having the thought, and then tend to the state first- Yeah ... in whatever small way you can. There's a, I just wanna share this, like, quick tidbit about our research study because I think it's so interesting in the way it's, I don't know, bears out this point, which is that Kelly McGonigal, , did this study on 30,000 people, and they were looking at the impact of stress, , on people's health and wellbeing and, and even mortality. And so what they found is that, , maybe as you would expect people who reported having the highest stress over the past year were 43% more likely to die, but then they went another step further and they looked at, , whether people who had experienced that stress had had considered it- Negative or not, like if they- Mm , if in having this, this highest degree of stress they thought that it was dangerous to themselves or a- Mm ... negative thing. And when they added in that layer, the people who had the same exact degree of stress but didn't perceive it as a bad thing necessarily, there was actually no mortality, no death. Mm. It was only the people that perceived the stress as negative. Mm. So, so I think it just sort of bears out this point that even when we're talking about experiencing the, you know, highest degrees of things that we consider negative or hard, our perception of them is really what's driving the impact. So it's really the stories that we are telling. When we take stress, even the word, we all have obviously a pretty negative connotation to that. But really, stress is just energy in the body. So we go back to that state, and if we stay with just energy and sort of feeling in the body, it's not inherently bad or good. Mm. But as soon as we start to create stories around it, "This'll never go away. It's always gonna be this way. It's this person's fault. Why can't I handle this better?" Mm. That's when our suffering starts, and that's where we start to see kinda negative outcomes. So- Yes ... I just think that research has always been really interesting to me. I love that, because how many of us are stressed about the fact that we're stressed? Right. Yeah. Right. You know? Exactly. I mean, it's always, that's the core of it. Ah, I shouldn't be stressed. Right. Like, I gotta fix this. You know? Right? Exactly. And so- Yeah ... I love that reframe of thinking or recognizing or just knowing that it is just a state that your body is in, and that we control the story that we tell about it. Yeah, yeah, it makes me think back to, like, the beginning of our conversation and just sort of, like, accepting the seasons of life. Mm. I think that that has been, feels related to me in, in that, like when I'm, have tried to stop, fighting against being in, like, a particular season or this being a harder time, you know, in whatever way it's still hard. It doesn't change the fact that it's hard. But I don't feel like I'm suffering in it, right? Mm. So I feel like that's the difference. I love this topic. I'm gonna continue pondering this and noticing my reaction, my stories, the thoughts that I have about something as every day as my to-do list- Mm-hmm ... or whatever else comes up. Yeah. I think that'll be a really helpful thing for all of us to, to notice and to do what we can to tend to our state first. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Are you open to a couple of quick fun questions? We're calling this- Sure ... Off the Clock. Just to get to know you a little bit more- Yeah ... and to end on a light note. So here's your first one. Tell us whether you are a night owl or an early bird. Mm. I guess I... Well, I am more of an early bird than a night owl. Okay. Naturally or because of your children? Pro- probably in this stage of life hormonally and otherwise, probably more naturally as well. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Okay. What about when do you do your best, , most focused work? What time of day? Mm. Yeah. If I, hmm, if I had the freedom and flexibility to do it during this time, it's, like, rare that I have this time available- Yeah ... but I think it would probably be, like, 8:00 to 10:00 AM. Yep. Yeah. May- more... Mm. Yeah, yeah, probably 8:00 to 10:00 AM. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Life doesn't always allow us to do that, but- It's so frustrating ... it's a good thing. Yeah. It's like I'd be so good right now. Too bad I'm doing drop-off. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And then do you prefer a paper or digital tool when it comes to planning? What's your go-to? Yeah. Okay. I, I mean, I think this would be considered a hybrid because I use the reMarkable- Yeah ... tablet. Me too. And so, and it feels, I just love it so much, so. That's right. You do use it. Yes. Look at that. I do use it as well. Yeah. I guess that leans... To me, it's a little bit more paper. I think so too. Yeah, it's not... Yeah. It's not like an app-based- It's not an app. It's- Sure. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And then last one, what would you do with an extra hour each day? Oh, my gosh. The 25th hour, what would you do? Mm. Mm, mm, mm. Can I divide it into 30-minute blocks? If you must. I would, I would write for 30 minutes, and then I would get 30 more minutes of sleep. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Sleep. Love sleep. Yeah, yeah. Oh, so good. I love those answers. Yeah. Oh, thanks. Where can listeners go to connect with you, to learn more about your work, or to maybe read your beautiful writing? Yeah. And we will put all of these in the show notes. Oh, great. Thank you. , yeah, I'm on social media @galiacollabotive. But , I would most love if people signed up for the Sunday newsletter, and so probably the easiest way to do that is through our website, which is, , www.galiacollaborative.com. Perfect. I get Ashley's newsletter and highly recommend it. It is a longer form, so it feels- Mm ... very luxurious to read. When I create the space to read one of your articles top to bottom, I always feel filled up in some way- Oh or I learn something. Yep. So, highly recommend them. If you're not signed up, please go do that. Thank you so much. Of course. Thank you for being here. This was , such fun and always so interesting to talk about these deep topics with you. Yeah. There were so many more. We'll have to have you back. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for listening and as always, for being a part of this working mom community. You can find everything related to this episode in the show notes at themothernurture.com/podcast, you can also find information about how I support working moms just like you through one-on-one, and group coaching, as well as access a number of resources and articles all on my website at themothernurture.com. I will see you again next week for another episode of the podcast.
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