Episode 79: When You Care for Others at Work and at Home
ITUNES | SPOTIFY
If you’ve ever felt the weight of caring for everyone—your team, your patients, your kids, your household—this conversation is for you.
In this week’s episode, I sit down with my friend Elise, a full-time physician, mom of two, whose workdays and home life both revolve around caregiving in different, equally demanding ways. Elise shares what it’s really like to spend your day caring for patients and then come home to the second shift of caring for your family—and how she tries to stay grounded through it all.
We talk about:
the emotional load of being a caregiver in your career and at home,
how she “shifts gears” between those two versions of herself,
the compressed 5–8 p.m. window that can feel like a sprint,
the boundaries that help her leave work at work (most days),
and how she stays connected to her husband despite two very demanding careers.
Elise also gets honest about dinner stress, finding time for herself, and what she’s learning about letting go of perfection in favor of what actually works. It’s warm, real, and full of those “oh good, it’s not just me” moments we all need.
links & resources mentioned in this episode:
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You are listening to the Life Coach for Working Moms podcast, the show where we are talking about what it actually takes to make life work as a working mom. I'm your host, Katelyn Denning, a full time working mom of three and a certified life and executive coach. I'm so glad you're here and I hope you enjoy this week's episode. .
Hello and welcome back to the podcast. This is episode 79, and this topic was one that was actually a special request from this community. So I had someone reach out a while back and said, I would love to hear from a working mom who spends her. Days at her job caring for and supporting others because when we spend so much of our energy during the day caring for others, how do we maintain some energy in the tank to then come home and also care for our families?
And I thought it was a brilliant suggestion. So in today's conversation, I invited one of my good friends on who is a physician, so she cares for patients all day. Actually, so does her husband. They are both doctors and I think whether you are in the medical profession, whether you are perhaps a teacher or a coach or a counselor, or you manage a team,
you have people at work who you care for. It does take a certain amount of energy to do that. And of course, we wanna come home and still have plenty for the most important people to us, our families, our children, our partners, our friends. And so I love this conversation
and yes, we talk about caring, but we also get into so much more, Elise. Shares very openly about the areas of her working mom life where she would love to improve and. The parts that are just hard. We all would love to have an easy button for every part of our days, but the reality is that there are some pieces of the schedule that are just challenging no matter how you approach it.
And so we get real about that after work evening, crunch time. How to fit in exercise or just the basic things for ourself and also what it looks like to stay connected to partners who we've been with for years and who are in this parenting journey with us. I had so much fun talking with Elise and I cannot wait for you all to meet her, so please enjoy this episode.
Hi, Elise. Welcome to the podcast.
Thanks so much for having me, Katelyn.
I am excited to chat with you and learn some things, I'm sure. And I was trying to think actually earlier today when I knew we were going to be recording, I think we met on a soccer field.
Is that right?
You're
absolutely right.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
We met on a soccer field. We had a mutual friend, and Elise is one of those people who. I'm sure you'll hear this as she starts sharing her story, but she is so warm and inviting and just makes you feel comfortable. And I admire this so much about you. I feel like whenever I speak to you, I feel like the most important thing or person, I feel like our conversation is the most important conversation in that moment.
You have this ability to just be so present and engrossed is the word I wanna say in in whoever you're talking to and whatever you're talking about. And I love that so much.
That is so kind of you to say, Katelyn, thank you.
So I immediately knew me. I think , our kids were, this was Lollipop soccer, so they would've been four or five.
So anyone who is maybe in the earlier stages of parenthood wondering how you're gonna make friends. It can happen anywhere.
Anywhere.
Yeah. And now we've been friends for years and we're in book club together and we sometimes grab a neighborhood walk together and we can sometimes go months without catching up and then just jump right back into it.
And I love that.
I do too. And I'm grateful for our friendship. I really appreciate you and admire you and what you do, and I was so honored when you asked me to, chat with you today.
I love it. So before we get into questions and behind the scenes of what your life looks like, give us the broad strokes, who you are, what you do for work, what your family situation is like.
Sure. , so I am a physician. I'm a geriatrician and internist and, I am married to an amazing man. And, , have two wonderful children who are currently nine and seven. And, they, , are into all different things and they have different personalities and they're into some similar extracurriculars, but also different things.
, I work full-time and, , my husband does as well.
Your husband is also in the medical field, which I think is an interesting mm-hmm. Factor in all of this.
Yep. He's also a physician. We actually met in medical school and we're friends. Actually when I moved here, I matched here in residency it was 13 ish years ago, a little over 13 years ago.
, he was here, he's two years ahead of me in training. And so when I matched here, we reconnected. And the rest is history. The rest
is history. Yeah.
Yeah. Yep. So that, that was really fun to be able to do. You, he had an overlap of one year in training together. Yeah. And, , he's pursuing some other career interests of his within medicine, which is exciting for me to see too.
Yeah. So I grew up, I don't know if you know this, but I grew up as a daughter of public school teachers. So my worldview in terms of what one could do professionally was very narrow. And so when I think about medicine or as I was growing up and thought about doctors, even probably into young adulthood, it was only what I saw on tv.
You know, ER or Grey's Anatomy and. I don't know. It just all seems so stressful and rushed and fast paced. And then I've started coaching some women who are in the medical field, and I guess depending on what area of medicine or what your environment is like, it's very different. I know now that, but there are some nuances to it and I'm excited to hear more about that.
Or for anyone listening, even if you're not in the medical field yourself, I think it is always fascinating to hear behind the scenes of what it is like to navigate different schedules and responsibilities and pressures regardless of your job.
You actually bring up a really great point because I too really didn't see, , people in my.
Kind of close orbit in the medical field. I grew up also with parents who were in the same field . They were both school psychologists. And I actually really loved psychology. That's actually what I majored in, in, , undergrad.
Huh. I
didn't
know that.
Yeah. Yeah. And for , a while I really loved health psychology, but it was really interesting learning about why people choose certain health behaviors and how people are motivated mm-hmm. To, choose certain health behaviors. And it's kind of overlaps in public health a little bit. You know, how do we message for, , certain health behaviors , and try to encourage people, , to practice healthier behaviors.
And so I was really interested in that. And I originally, I wanted to get a PhD in this. And, I was not successful at pursuing that path into PhD world. And I stumbled upon, , a master's degree program through a mentor that I had at my college
and she said, you should check out Auburn University. , they have, , a health promotion degree. So, I looked into that and so all these things had a confluence to come together and it worked out that I was able to pursue this degree.
, I'd never been to Alabama. And I went there and it was actually there that I worked in a hospital setting in cardiac rehab. And that was really my first experience in spending time seeing what being in a hospital setting was. And I really enjoyed it, but I still had not really understood a lot of, you know, what goes on here, aside from visiting people I knew who were sick and were in the hospital so that's actually, , how I ended up peaking my interest in medicine. You know, if you see it, you can be it. That expression I think is so true. And, , later following graduating Auburn, .
I saw several female physicians and that's when I thought, wow, I wanna know what are they doing? And so I really started to think more about medicine , and hospital medicine and also just, what does being a physician look like?
And so it took me time because I had not gotten the classes, I had not pursued those classes to get into medical school. So I started medical school, school six years later than somebody who goes right out of college. So some people who finished undergraduate, , degree studies and go , straightforward, are done with medical school at the age of 26, but I didn't start medical school until I was 28.
Mm. So, , that was really cool to be able to do other things and. Work and pursue other interests while I was taking classes but it definitely, , skewed the path my life has taken.
Hmm.
Whereas, some of , my friends and, , colleagues who went to medical school soon after they, finished their undergraduate degree, , they started families younger and, they just started their careers younger than I did.
Yeah. Yeah. That's okay.
Yeah, exactly. And I'm grateful for the path that I took and I used to think it was kind of circuitous, but now I don't, I just think it all fits together in this puzzle of life and how I think that some of the experiences I had have informed me and continue to inform me and my decision making and both my work and also just in my life.
And so I am grateful for, , all of the experiences I had
hmm. I love that you said something there, because I've said it as well, and I think sometimes we need to hear it from somebody else. When you were describing your path and how maybe at different stages it felt circuitous, but now looking back you can see that it all made sense.
I use that line of thinking a lot, either personally or with clients when we're thinking about what feel like big decisions, like a career pivot or a job change, or even a move or who knows what you're facing. And we all do that. We look back at our journey in hindsight. And , can weave a story and tell ourselves a story, or in a job interview.
Right. I can make my resume make so much sense.
Mm-hmm.
Everything was meant to be that way, and it's just proof that there is no right decision. When we make the next choice, we just make it, we jump, we leap, and in a year or six months or five years, we're gonna look back and it's all gonna have made sense.
Totally. I, I like that because I think it removes some of the pressure
mm-hmm.
To do the right next thing. Just do something. Yes. You're gonna weave it into this beautiful tapestry or story or journey that's yours.
It's so true. And I think that every experience is, there is something that I can glean from this I think, yeah, had I gone this other route, , I would be in a totally different place in my life.
And it may have been great too, but I'm so happy that my life turned out the way it did because if you keep moving forward and you make the choice. Then you have the opportunity to see like, okay, this is the right choice for me. I'm gonna keep with this and this is really encouraging for me.
Or, you know what, this isn't what I wanna be doing, or this isn't right for me and I'm gonna pivot. And that information is just as important as knowing what you do like and what you do wanna keep doing. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. We got deep fast. Yeah. We're talking about the journey of life. That's so, and I wanna know like, what time do you wake up in the morning and who makes breakfast?
Oh yeah. I was like, scale it back.
I love it though. So, well, let's, let's just start, yeah. So I think your work hours are somewhat typical business hours, but maybe, maybe not. And that's just me making this up, but. Walk us through what things look like.
How early are you having to get things started? Who's dropping the girls off at school? Mm-hmm. How do you both arrange your schedules and communicate with each other?
Mm-hmm.
What's the date in the life of Elise look like?
Okay. What, so I wake up typically anywhere between like 6 45 and seven to get the day started.
And actually that's the same time our kids wake up. Michael wakes up a lot earlier. He's just a morning person. I'm more of a night owl, so, , I'm taking care of things usually through the evening and he'll be awake doing things in the house earlier. So it does kind of pair well, that we can, take care of household things at the times that we have, that energy.
But, , usually the girls are coming downstairs and he or I will be making breakfast for them. And sometimes they wanna get into it and , make breakfast themselves, which is great. They have to be at school at eight. We try to give ourselves a good 15 minutes or so to get to school when we leave the house.
They're very, self-sufficient in the morning for the most part. I mean, they're at an age now, I think developmentally where they're like, they're motivated, they wanna be at school on time and so that's been wonderful transitioning into this phase,
and I need to be at work. I usually get there anytime between like eight and eight 30. So drop off, we split between my husband and I. , the days that he needs to be at work at eight, I'm taking them to school and I'll get to work. , sometimes between like eight 15 and eight 30.
, the days that he has more flexibility in the morning, he's taking them to school.
Okay.
And that is similar , for pickups. At the end of their school day between the two of us will be picking them up. And if we need help, we're really fortunate. We have both sets of, our parents live in the area, so they'll help with, , pickup, , on the occasion that we are both like working late.
And are they doing aftercare or are you just getting them at the end of the normal school day?
Yes, they do. , so Michael will pick them up. He has some flexibility, , afternoons during the week, not all afternoons, but some afternoons. So he'll be able to pick them up, , at the end of their school day.
And then other days, like if either of us have meetings, they'll be in, aftercare until later, like around five or so. , it just kind of depends. And then after school activities, you know, sometimes they're in a club, sometimes they're doing soccer or basketball. , we're reintroducing piano after just a handful of lessons so far.
Mm-hmm.
So that'll, also be another, , afterschool activity. So, you know, once five hits, I definitely feel like a compression , of things happening between five and eight.
Yeah. Yeah. And is your day pretty much like you said, 8 15, 8 30, you can arrive and then are you seeing patients all day and you're working until five or later whenever you're done?
Do you have to pick back up and do more work at home in the evenings? Yeah. What's that look like?
Yeah, so I see patients both in the hospital setting, in the clinic setting as well as in the nursing home setting. So three clinical areas.
And I technically, can be done, anywhere between four 30 and five. , sometimes I might need to work later if I have meetings. Or I'm wrapping up clinical care. , I do take, , every few weeks or months, depending on how the schedule shakes out, I take home Call and all the other providers in our group, , for the nursing home, we take home call.
, and that, , is where, you know, we may get calls about, , something that, that comes up , and, , that may look like also logging onto the computer , and documenting, , or ordering things. And, that's one week at a time. So, that's just incorporated into the, schedule and everything.
I will never forget. And you can tell me if, if I shouldn't share this, but Elise and I are in a book club that can at times get a little rowdy, depending on the book that we're discussing. And of course we were cackling about something probably very inappropriate. And all of a sudden, Elise's phone rings and she has to shush the whole group and very briskly step out of the room and put on her professional voice, hello, this is Dr.
Binder. And we were like, oh, shoot.
But right there you are out doing your thing and also being available because that was your week to do that. And that's, that's exactly right. I'm sure just something that you've gotten used to over the years.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. You know, being able to switch it on and off is just something that I maybe have gotten used to, and, comes with the territory. But I do love what I do. I love work. I love the patient care that I am able to provide. So, being able to put on that hat in that moment and address what's going on.
And then when it's time being able to reintegrate myself into a really fun conversation about a book and so, yeah, it all fits together. It's all part of the process.
Yeah. That brings up something that I feel like I've heard from or talked to people about , and maybe that is your answer.
You're really good at compartmentalizing or switching, from professional hat to personal hat. But when I think about whether, , you're in healthcare or you're in counseling or even my role as a coach, we are caring for other people. We're holding space for them. You are seeing patients maybe, I would imagine, some of whom you're worried about or you're thinking about, or right.
You're trying to solve problems for them and they matter , and you are such a caring person in that way. And so, what are your thoughts on like, , how do you do that all day long for other people come home? Like, do you feel like you're caring tank? Is that a thing or battery ever is just so drained by the time you're done with work that you're wondering , how am I gonna have anything left for anybody else?
That's a good question. I think that I've definitely compartmentalized work, , so that I can try to leave work out of family life as much as I'm able to.
, there are times that I probably am stressed about perhaps a patient, and how they're doing or. You know, a presentation I'm giving and I have to get the slides together and I wanna make sure that, I've practiced enough times or what have you. And so, mm-hmm. For me, I think the biggest stress is the compression, of that three hour, and I say three hours because we try to have our children in bed by eight.
And so
I'm impressed.
It, I mean, it's, it is, it's, this time change has really helped. I will say but I, I think that that's the hardest thing for me because there are so much that I want to be present for, for our children, and I feel like I can't be, and so
in some ways, I mean, this is very subconscious. I don't know if, , I'm drawing this out from the depths of my brain, but, , it's like, am I making up for lost time in this three hour span that I have these five days every week? So like, making sure that, I'm really present with them, , as much as I'm able to, but yet, also being like, well, I also want you to be able to do what you wanna do.
And, , if you have homework to do, you need to do that. Or, if they're wanting to read books to decompress, like, you know, support them in that but also, , how do I get dinner on the table and make sure that that's done so that we're also not eating up until, okay, now we gotta go straight upstairs.
Or especially when there's extracurriculars that go later in the evening. I think that I find that to be really difficult. , and we tend to go to bed later on those nights just because we're eating dinner later and we're trying to get other things wrapped up before bed too.
Yeah.
So I, I definitely think, , it's that time period feels very, , stressful for me.
I just wish I had more time in some ways. But on the other hand. I don't have that right now, so, I just try to figure out like , what can I do within that timeframe that's meaningful. Mm-hmm. In the summer when it's light out, we will go for walks after, , dinner as a family.
But it's definitely more compressed during the school year for sure.
Yeah. Is there anything that you do that you can think of to help you leave work at work?
Yeah. Well, I think trying not to.
Chart at home as much as possible.
Hmm.
And I think, in some cases that's just not possible. Sometimes you have to bring work home literally, and like finish notes at home.
Hmm.
But , like trying to, , just make sure that I know things are tied it up as best as I can have them before I leave, then I'm less likely to ruminate on them when I come home.
Or if something pops in my head and I think, oh, I need to make sure I do that tomorrow or this week and it's work related.
, I'll take out my calendar and just old school, like write down, I have a. A paper calendar that I use, shout out to, you know my,
I love it.
Yeah.
Calendar that. I use old school. Is it, is it like a
blue sky?
Oh, okay.
Okay. Yeah. Like old school. I don't even know. It's an academic year, so it goes from like July to end of June.
Yeah.
Which is great. 'cause it also corresponds to the kids' calendar too. Sure. But yeah, writing things down so that it's not in my head and I'm thinking like, oh, I can't forget this, so. Mm-hmm. Just trying to get it down on paper so that I know to take care of it.
But I also think that that's taking me a long time to learn too. To just leave work at work. Mm-hmm. I remember as a resident, I would. Come home from my night shift. And I, remember presenting to an attending and they would ask, well, why didn't you order this?
Or Why didn't you guys start this medication? Or whatever. And I would come back and I would pour over information online, like on this one particular website that we look at, or studies that I'd be looking at, trying to confirm, or validate our choices that we made or trying to learn, okay, what did I miss here?
And I would just, lose a lot of sleep over doing that. But I also learned a lot from that because those were opportunities that I'm like, okay, well I'll, put this into the bank of information that I need to know for next time so,
, but it's taken me some time to, to leave it at work.
Mm-hmm. I'm thinking of a client of mine who also works in , a hospital setting and that transition has been a challenge and the pace of her days is fast. And the information, the questions, the people that need her . From all of the devices to, the charge nurse or whoever is knocking on her door figuratively, all day long.
It was very challenging to make that transition home to be with her kids and be more present as you are describing. . To just be there and be available for whatever the kids need. And I'm hearing you say, okay. Get my notes done, so I'm not thinking about that. Make sure I'm jotting down anything that I don't wanna forget.
So it's there for me and I can pick it up the next day and I'm not thinking about it all evening when I'm with the kids. And for her, she experimented with, on her way out to the car, taking a walking lap around the parking lot, just some way to one, mark the transition. Two, give her brain a little bit of time to process through and think through everything that did happen.
So maybe we can leave it there. And three, just actually change her pace from rushing from. Patient and appointment to appointment to, okay, I am now gonna be with kids who are on a totally different schedule, and so can I walk and shift my pace as I go and then hop in my car and drive home. And so I'm sure it looks different for everyone, but it is an interesting question and something to notice.
, definitely. How, how do we do that? It's not easy.
It's not, that's actually such a great idea and a great way to practice, being mindful and making that separation of that work, which it does sound really busy and stressful to then , breaking with a different pace, coming home.
And I didn't think about this, but I sometimes will, fit in a walk between work and picking up the kids from school. Or, , aftercare because, , it's the time that I have to do it, you know? Yeah. And so having that separation is also great, like being able to walk, even if it's for 15 minutes after work mm-hmm.
Than you getting in my car and, and getting the kids or just coming back home. And that's a really nice way to break the pace up. And for sure, how your time is occupied during the day. Certainly if I were in a, a more, fast paced, like if I were in, in the er, which I'm not, or the ed like that is, , a much more, it's a faster paced environment.
Sure.
So I could imagine that would be more stressful and having to break that pace. But, , yeah, also, you know, in that compressed time is like when do I make time for working out?
Yeah. Or when do you do that?
Doing exercise. So it's usually in the evening. Either after the kids are in bed or in that time, like where I can fit in a little bit between leaving work and coming home or getting going to school.
Mm-hmm. We keep talking about this after work evening timeframe, but I know it is such a stress point or pressure point in so many working parents' days where regardless of the age of your kids, certainly when they're younger and you remember this.
Where you came home and you had maybe an hour and a half before, , early bedtime when you have babies or, just navigating the different seasons of that. But even now, it still is a pressure point. How do you make it work? What are the things that save you? What are the parts of that that you're like, wow, I could still use some help here, or I don't have it all figured out.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I am still figuring it out. I'm still figuring it out. But I would say I feel really fortunate to have a partner who, we can work together. So if it's like, Hey, I'm gonna pick up dinner on the way home, or, . I'm going to start dinner so that it's done or nearly done by the time you come home.
And so we're trying, to tag team that we're still in a phase where our children are not eating the same meals for dinner, always that we , eat. Mm-hmm. So I'm trying to break away from making two separate dinners, but I am still pulled in this direction and our kids are getting a little bit better.
But. I find that, I'm not going to be able to make dinner every night. And that is both like a source of guilt that I have and also am coming to accepting, like right now the season of my life and my career and family life.
It's hard for me to do that, but I, I am trying to think of ways that I can, , get more home cooked meals, maybe I'll meal plan more over the weekend and start a slow cooker or crockpot meal and have more of that for the rest of the week.
Let me know if you find any good ones.
I haven't found any good ones.
I know, I mean, it's so hard. It is challenging to figure out how do I feed my family healthy, nutritious meals and. Make sure everybody is satisfied with the food they're eating. Knowing you can't please everyone, but just hoping that people, by and large are gonna feel, satisfied with the food they're getting.
But in many ways I wish I could clone myself I mean, I feel like that's such a cliche or whatever. I don't even know what the expression is, but just having another person to make the food that I would love to spend time making every day and looking at these recipe books that I have just sitting on the shelf, begging to be opened and I dunno if it's just that I haven't prioritized it or it's just hard time-wise for me.
Yeah.
Yeah. You want a little coaching on that? Yes. I dunno, session. I don't have the answers either.
Session. Yeah.
But. I, I mean, one, you and anyone listening are so not alone. The number of times I work with clients on meal planning and dinner prep, it is a whole thing. And we have all of these stories that we tell ourselves about what we should be doing, what we want to be doing, what we're not doing.
And you said, in this season of my life, with my career and my family, I'm learning to, or I'm trying to accept that I'm not going to make a homemade meal every night. And I think that's a big piece of this. , can you say that and actually believe it?
Or I will sometimes talk with clients about, well, what would you be happy with? If you right now are doing take out. Five nights a week, maybe you're doing two nights at home, like some sort of assembly meal or frozen nuggets, or who knows, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
Would you be happy if you just reduced takeout to three nights a week? You know, and, and could that be a win?
Mm-hmm.
And so then how do you make up that gap of those two additional meals now? And can you crack open the recipe books that are collecting dust on the shelves right now, on, a Sunday evening or whatever evening one of you has a little more flexibility or you don't have any extracurriculars?
Mm-hmm.
Right. I'm making the same meals over and over again because they're the ones that I have 'em memorized. I know everybody eats 'em. I know they're fast to make and then I'll try something new. Typically for us, it is on a Sunday evening where we're generally all home. It feels good to be in the kitchen for a little more time than I normally would be to learn a new recipe.
Mm-hmm.
But I'm, I have zero expectation that I'm gonna do that all the time.
Mm-hmm.
Either.
Yeah. I think that that is great.
Not every night has to be like, in the kitchen, whipping up something amazing.
I, I also think maybe we could think about the words meal prep differently. So I don't know about you, but when I hear, oh, I'm gonna meal prep, I think three hours on a weekend day where I'm making multiple meals so they're all done and all I have to do on Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday night, just heat them up.
Mm-hmm.
And that's great if that's what you do. I personally would be so exhausted if I spent all day Sunday on my feet making multiple meals. But I also think we can meal prep pieces of things \ , and maybe everybody's already doing this and I'm telling you what you already know, but. It's helping your future self put dinner on the table five or 10 or 15 minutes faster than if you were doing everything from scratch, right?
So can you chop , the onion and the bell pepper and the celery that's gonna go into the soup and just have it ready in a container. So all you have to do is dump it in and start cooking that. I'll often like dice or chop up my chicken and put that in a container, my raw chicken, and then all I have to do is dump that into the stir fry and cook it .
That saves me five minutes of opening the package and getting the knife and the cutting board and all of that out. And so I'm not great at making a full meal in advance, but I am great at prepping the ingredients that will take me longer if I do them in that five to 8:00 PM window when we're rushed to get to the next thing or get everybody showered and into bed.
Totally. Yeah, that's such a good point. Like those short bits of like, mis en plus.
Mm-hmm.
Like just having it done and that way you just can take it out. And I think that I'm at the stage of like, I just need to know, what are the recipes I'm going to even utilize that week?
Like you were saying even earlier, just making a choice and moving forward with it. It's overwhelming sometimes for me to , look at a recipe book and be like, these are so many awesome recipes.
Okay, I'm just gonna close it. Put it away. I can't proceed. But really, I could work with a few here. , they're all good. Maybe I'll just close my eyes, open the book and be like, oh, this is the one for tonight. You know?
Yeah.
And I wonder if you made those decisions about your meals in advance. I'm not saying like way far in advance, but you made 'em for the week ahead.
Mm-hmm.
And the girls knew what was coming.
Yeah.
Right. Then it, I don't know. You'd have to, you'll have to report back and try it. But does it help you hold the line a little bit more because the decision's already been made? You're not waffling, you're not like, oh, well maybe I should make this. Oh, I could give in.
It's like, no, I've already planned out the meals for the week and it's been on the menu board. Or it's been on the calendar. Yeah. That Wednesday is barbecue meatballs or whatever you're having.
Right.
And yeah. Then if you don't like it, then you wanna make peanut butter and jelly. That's fine after, but it's not a surprise.
Right.
I don't know.
I love that. And I think I mean, that's the name of the game too, with kids, right? Having clear expectations mm-hmm. And knowing what's coming next, all of that. And that's how it is at school.
So I think having that, , at home with the meals, I think would be great. I think I'm going to implement this. Thank you, Katelyn.
Please report back.
So we've talked, we've talked about work.
I feel like I have a good grasp of what that looks like. We've talked about the pressure cooker of the evening hours. You've shared a little bit about exercise. People know you're in a book club with me. So you're doing some things for yourself as well outside of work and parenting. You and I have talked before in real life also about marriage and our relationships, and I think any parent would agree that there are ebbs and flows, different seasons of prioritizing that relationship and making connection a priority.
I'm curious, if you feel comfortable to share where things stand now or what. That looks like for you in terms of the effort and intention that you or both of you really have to put into that relationship?
That's a great question. I, I think that Michael and I have tried to prioritize each other over the years and that's looked like a few different things.
One is we were going on one date night a week, and Wow. Really trying to, , prioritize that. And it also worked out that the babysitter that we had at the beginning of the COVID Pandemic, who was a lifesaver for us and she entered our lives when school was. Virtual. And she, , helped us along with o our other amazing nanny, but she, , stayed in our lives as a babysitter.
Mm.
And so she's been in our lives for the last five and a half years and was, basically a kind of our date night babysitter. So we were able to prioritize whether it was a spontaneous, let's go to this restaurant, or when it's nice out, we'll go for a walk and we'll do an urban hike.
Mm-hmm. Whether it's in the neighborhood or downtown or maybe we plan something farther in advance like a show or. Like going to see live music or whatever it is. And so I think making each other a priority is important and one of the many schools of thought or approaches to parenting. A common theme among all of them is making your partner look good. Like okay, let's say, you know, dad is saying something that maybe , I wouldn't say it that way.
Or , I may not parent in that way, but I am not going to parent him in front of our children. And so trying to, , be more mindful
and if we have something that we really need to talk about that we're like, Hey, I think maybe we phrase it X, Y, Z, we do it not in front of the kids.
Hmm.
And we have a separate meeting. So I think that even though it's about parenting, like that's another way. Just kind of going back to that question is just , how do we prioritize each other?
And part of that is, , by trying to be a unified front, I think in parenting.
Mm.
And it's challenging when you might disagree with how your partner is, saying, a rule or what, whatever.
Yeah,
it might be. And so I think if it's possible
like, how do we get on the same page? And also having grace for your partner if, they, may say or do something that, Hey, this isn't what we said we were gonna do. Mm-hmm. And one thing that we often remind ourselves of if we disagree on something regarding parenting, is like, let's go back to the core shared.
Principle, like we both want the following things for our children. We both want them to feel happy or confident or, safe in being able to ask us questions or whatever it is, so we have this , shared value, but
we might approach it a little differently. But how do we get to, , the end results? And, I think talking about parenting and talking about, about, , those types of things is something that is also prioritizing our relationship. But then of course, doing the date nights and doing fun things , and being curious about.
Your partner and asking them questions about not just their day, but like what are they excited about, what are they nervous about coming up and whatever, like career or other things in life and just trying to make space and time to connect, yeah. Is important. So
I always think back to, do you remember like meeting new friends when you were a young adult, whether it was college or I don't know, med school or your early jobs and just having a million questions for people, right?
'cause maybe they grew up somewhere else, or different family situation or whatever it is, and just being so curious. And I think that is so easy to lose, especially the longer you're with someone. We think we know it all. And I love the question examples that you just gave, right?
Not just the how was your day, but being curious and being open to the very strong possibility that what you think you knew could be a little bit different. Because we're all changing and growing and our work is different or the things that we're interested in changes. And I love that, , that it's, that's all of those things that it's the date nights, but it's also there's connection opportunity in parenting to be a team to really support each other and learn from each other, and that it is about curiosity and questions and really continuing to know the other person.
Mm-hmm. Totally.
Yeah. And nobody's doing it perfectly.
Mm-hmm.
But just knowing that that's what you want and having some ideas or some tools of what you can do to return to
mm-hmm.
Even when life is busy.
Definitely. And I think I've learned over time to be more communicative or to articulate the things that I need or want more.
And I think that has really made our relationship better. If I don't articulate, for example, hey, if you go to the store, , can you please bring back X, Y, Z? , if I don't say, how is he supposed to read my mind and know that?
Right. So , just even communicating things that might seem obvious to us are, which are not to our partner. That is really helpful. So , I will say learning that for me has been really great because it does connect us and then it's an opportunity like, if you go to the coffee shop when you go, I'd really love for you to get me X. Like if there's any ever a time you go. So now You know, he does, he does that, and I'm like, I'm so thankful for that. Thank you so much. And so we are, just articulating what it is we want and need.
Mm.
I think it all boils down to practice. And it's a skill. And if you're not good at that yet, you can be
mm-hmm.
You can learn. Mm-hmm. And we can all do better.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
This was so fun. Thank you for being here. For anyone listening, we are recording this late at night.
This is Elise's prime time and I'm about ready to go crawl into bed right now, but, to bring us full circle, right. Your days just don't have quite as much flexibility in them to be able to pop out and record a podcast interview in the middle of the workday. So here we are and I'm happy to do that with you.
I really appreciate you carving out this time when you would otherwise be either reading or asleep. So
I would be reading some s Muddy romance downstairs, cuddled up under the covers already. But I am happy to do this here.
Thank you, Katelyn.
Yeah, thanks so much for joining me.
Thank you for listening and as always, for being a part of this working mom community. You can find everything related to this episode in the show notes at themothernurture.com/podcast,
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